Katalina (00:10)
Hello and welcome back to another episode of Career Path. I am your host, Katalina. Today we are covering the topic of connection and creating culture in your organization. And here to discuss this topic with me, I have Kayla Lloyd. She is a second-year associate for Slovin and Council in Cincinnati, Ohio, as well as currently being barred and practicing civil litigation in Indiana. Kayla, I am so excited to have you on today. Thank you so much for joining me.
Kayla (00:36)
Thank you, Katalina. I'm super excited. I've never recorded a podcast before. So this is a brand new experience for me. So I'm super excited.
Katalina (00:43)
Awesome. I actually don't think I knew this was your first podcast. Maybe you mentioned it, but I didn't remember, and I am so honored that you're here with me for the first time. Thank you. Well, we're gonna kick this off the same way we do with all of the Career Path podcasts, which is the same question. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got to where you are today?
Kayla (01:01)
Yeah, absolutely. So this is actually one of my favorite stories. So I graduated from UNT with my bachelor's in English. I went on to teach high school English right out of undergrad. At the time, I had a four-year-old daughter. So she was in preschool at the time. I was teaching high school, and then shortly after I was teaching, I finished my master's and went to work in the college library.
So I was an academic librarian for a little while. And then shortly after that, I felt like I needed something a little more fast-paced. The library is traditionally very quiet and very slow, for lack of a better term. So I was like, okay, I need to do something that's just a little more my speed.
And so I applied for a paralegal job. And so I took that. And then I did that for a little while. And then I decided that I really enjoyed it and that I could probably also do the law part of it. And so then I went to law school. And that is how I got here. I went to law school, graduated, took the bar, and yeah, now I'm an attorney in Cincinnati. Thank you.
Katalina (01:41)
That's incredible. From teacher to librarian to paralegal to lawyer. Wow. It's so cool. And it's also fun to know that you aren't the first previous teacher that I had on here. I believe they also were in high school, but they were a high school band instructor, I believe. So very unique, so cool. And I don't think I knew it was English. I know you had mentioned previously to me that you were a high school teacher, but I'm an English major, so we're gonna have to talk more about that. I think that's so cool.
But let's dive into our topic of how connection creates culture within a company. Starting with the idea of how people follow people. And specifically, when you and I first talked about this topic, it was about being that high school teacher, and you shared something about how you discovered that in the classroom. Can you kind of talk about that story to kick us off?
Kayla (02:27)
Yeah, absolutely. So every year we had something called convocation. And it was just like the week before school started, where all the teachers would get together and do their in-service, kind of kick off the school year type thing. And they always showed the same TED Talk.
And I don't remember; I should have looked up the name of the lady whose TED Talk it is, but she always talks about how kids don't learn from people they don't like or from teachers that they don't like.
And so that's a pretty basic concept just in education: building relationships, and the way that you're gonna get the most positive result out of a student is by building relationships, and that if you don't build those bridges, then you're probably not going to get a whole lot out of your students in general. So I just think that topic kind of applies everywhere.
I mean across the board in any setting, whether it's education, whether you're, you know, a lawyer or whatever else. I mean, building relationships is always the best way to get positive results, I think. Whatever those results may be.
Katalina (03:42)
Absolutely. And it's very similar to the old adage that people do business with people that they like. And you hear that all the time, but it is so true. There can be two companies that do the exact same thing.
And even if Company A performs a little bit better than Company B, if the people at Company B are better to work with and people like them and they're personable, people are probably gonna go with Company B, even though they do the exact same thing. That relationship building is so impactful.
Kayla (04:12)
It is. And I remember talking when I was in library school; I was talking to the director of one of the public libraries. There is a library school. Yes. So my master's is in library and information science. So yeah. No, that's okay. Yeah, so when I was in library school, I was talking to the director of one of the public libraries in my area, and she talked about trust.
Katalina (04:18)
I'm sorry, real quick, there's a library school. Wow, that's so cool. Sorry, it's quick sighted.
Kayla (04:37)
And trust is not ever something that I think I've ever had an issue with necessarily. Like, I'm not someone that is, I guess, someone that bends the truth or isn't; I'm an honest person is what I'm trying to say. But I remember her saying that people won't work with you if they don't trust you, which feels very basic.
I mean, we don't typically like to engage with people we don't trust on any level. But I think once again that ties into the building of the relationships. Like, yeah, can you build relationships with people? And can they try to trust you? And you know, do they like you? And do you know?
Katalina (05:11)
Absolutely, because just like how people wanna work with people that they like, you don't want to work with somebody where that trust is not inherent, and we can extend this within your own organization. People don't like to deal with a leader that they don't like, or they don't trust, and there's also that common saying that people don't quit jobs.
They quit bad managers or bad leadership or, yeah, bad work environments. Absolutely. Cause that leadership is what sets the emotional tone, and people will mirror the leadership energy as well. So if the leadership sets a tone of distrust and of toxicity in whatever manner, it's gonna leach out throughout the rest of the organization and then
Kayla (05:34)
Bad institutions. Yeah, absolutely.
Katalina (05:58)
Not only are people not gonna work there, but people are not gonna wanna work with your business.
Kayla (06:02)
Yeah, absolutely. And I've had very few jobs where I feel like I've had issues with management or working amongst people that you know I didn't trust or I didn't like. I think it's hard to be unlikable. And I suppose some people can probably accomplish it, but it's much easier to be someone that can lead others and that other people want to work with and/or work for and that people can trust.
Katalina (06:28)
I think that comes a lot from transparency, being a human to other people. And actually listening to the transparency of others within your organization, understanding where they're coming from, why they're doing what they're doing, where they need assistance, goes a very long way to listening.
Kayla (06:31)
Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's specifically in law; sometimes that can get lost a little bit. I don't think that's something that we have a problem with here, but I have heard other people talk about, you know, law firms that they worked for where, you know, as support staff, paralegals, legal assistants, whatever, they were not always treated respectfully.
They were not always spoken to very nicely by the attorneys. And it sounds very old school, but it does still happen sometimes. And again, thankfully, that's not a situation that I have been in personally working in law, but it does still happen occasionally where attorneys really feel like they are kind of at the top of the food chain and, you know, kind of don't always treat everyone below them the most respectfully.
And that's one thing that, when I interviewed with my current firm, was that it is absolutely something that if that's how you feel, then this is not going to be the place for you. So I appreciated that very much with, you know, my supervising attorney and the managing partners. Everyone really goes out of their way to make sure that everyone is valued and treated as a part of the working machine. You know, one of us is not more important than the other.
Kayla (07:53)
And that is something that I'm very passionate about. I think just having been a paralegal before. I think it's really the best way that we are so successful is because we all kind of work in tandem together. And it's not so much like the attorneys are so much more important than the support staff, if that makes sense.
Katalina (07:59)
Yeah. Hundred percent. I mean, what I think you nailed right there is the power of appreciation and how that can be key to running a very healthy organization and creating that healthy culture of trust. so it can help increase productivity and make sure that everybody knows that they are a valued part of the organization.
There's also the idea of how they feel valued within that appreciation. Like people have different goals and like to have different ways that they feel valued. It could be financially reflected in their compensation package. It could be by their title. It could be a bunch of different things, or even just simply basic recognition. And that can go a very long way.
Kayla (08:53)
I think that basic recognition is probably the easiest part and the part that gets overlooked most often. It's really easy for us to kind of get stuck in our offices and not engage with everyone. That's, you know, we have several, several legal assistants and paralegals.
And as I said, sometimes it's easy to get stuck in our office and not leave and not talk to anyone for a day. And so even just coming out into the break room and, you know, seeing what everyone's up to, kind of engaging in conversation, even just briefly, makes a world of difference.
Katalina (09:22)
Yeah. Absolutely. Are there any other ways that your organization actively practices that appreciation and sharing the human aspect with each other?
Kayla (09:31)
Yeah, absolutely. We do a lot for holidays. So we do a Halloween party, a Christmas party, and we order lunch every now and then. We celebrate birthdays, just in general; everyone seems very close and very genuinely wants to interact with everyone else. It's awesome.
Katalina (09:51)
Yeah, I mean people want human leaders. They don't want perfect leaders or robot leaders. Everybody wants to know that everyone is human ultimately. And humans before their job titles too. There's that whole idea of like we don't just live to work. We work to live. Like it, it is a job at the end of the day, and we can be absolutely passionate about it and care so much.
But at the end of the day, people are human. We are not robots, and we're not perfect. So having that human aspect is huge. And you also made a really good point there. You said something along the lines of, like, recognition does not have to cost money.
And it's often overlooked how small those things can be, whether it's like a small call-out, just giving credit where credit is due, and also just recognizing when people do good versus when they just do bad. I feel like a lot of times organizations only point things out when they see something negative instead of being like, " Hey, I've been noticing you've been doing a consistently good job, or you noticed something and brought it to my attention that is a problem; really well spotted.”
Like, we appreciate you doing positive things, making sure that not only is it called out when there is a positive moment, but that it's specific. I think it means a lot to people when you don't just say, hey, Good job. But saying, like, hey, you did a really good job on ABC, and I appreciate how this reflects your dedication, or I can tell that we can trust you through these actions, and making it specific to the person.
Kayla (11:15)
Yeah. And back to that trust element too. It's so important. If I give something to a legal assistant, I trust that they'll get it done. and it comes it comes back to me, and it comes onto me in my building relationships with them because if they dislike me for whatever reason- if it's because I'm unkind or if I'm doing too much- from the beginning it just kind of messes up the way automation is supposed to work.
So they don't like me because I'm not very nice, but I give them something and it may or may not get done. They don't trust me. I don't trust them. It just throws everything off and doesn't work. And so, aside from just being kind to someone because that's what you're supposed to do, it also, like I said, it's much easier, and it's much better for everyone to just be kind and genuine and let people know that you appreciate them.
And anytime I do give something to someone, I make sure to say, I appreciate you for getting it done. Cause I know how tough it is. We have a pretty heavy workload. So it is tough, and it does irritate people sometimes when you have to give them something that needs to go out, you know, right that minute. Or it needs to be done before the end of the day.
And that's irritating, and that's fine. But I always make sure to say, like, I appreciate you. I know this is, you know, I know this is irritating. I know this is kinda frustrating that I keep giving you stuff in this way. But I do appreciate it. And I think it is. I hope it makes all the difference. I think it does.
Katalina (12:36)
Yeah. You highlighted a couple of very important things there too. This idea of transparency in what you're doing. You're saying, hey, I understand that this is not ideal, and you have empathy from there. And that's huge. That's huge for building that trust and that human aspect between people. But what I also love that you said, you mentioned this earlier too, is that it's actually easier.
It is actually easier to be kind and lead with authenticity and transparency than it is to not do that. And I feel I'm not even sure if this is the right answer. So I'm curious to hear your thoughts on this. But my guess is maybe the reason that people will fall into these bad practices is out of fear and out of this feeling of a need to have control over everything. What would you say?
Kayla (13:23)
Yeah, absolutely. I think specifically in law that that can be a thing. It's hard to delegate, and then when people leave, and you have to train new people, sometimes it's easier to just kind of take everything on by yourself. And then that breeds the inability to build relationships because then you do have to build a new relationship, and it just, yeah, sometimes becomes a little bit more difficult to do that.
And it's just easier if I just do everything by myself and don't bother anybody with it. Which ideally is not good long term. That's not gonna be a success. No one will be successful in that regard long term. But yeah, it does become a lot harder. But it's also easier, I think, to say, you know, I don't. I don't know how to do this thing, or I need help with this thing, regardless of who you're asking. And that once again is, you know, you're building relationships.
Whenever my staff comes in and tells me, like, Hey, we have this happening. I don't know what to do. And they'll give me all the information, and I'm like, you know what? I don't know what to do either, but we'll figure it out together, and even just little moments like that make all the difference. Just letting them know, like, hey, I don't know either. I don't know all the answers.
Katalina (14:26)
Yeah. That's a huge power too, to be able to recognize where you have gaps. Whether that's, you know, because you're being transparent and saying, like, hey, me too, or just admitting it to somebody who does know and says, Hey, I don't know what I'm doing here. Can you help me? Recognizing those gaps means that you are able to improve.
Kayla (14:29)
Yeah, and you, I mean, you have to. You absolutely have to. Our two senior paralegals have been here for more than thirty years. So it's like there's no way I could come in. You know, and I've been here almost two years, and I don't know even ten percent of what they know. So it's, I would say most beneficial to me to be kind, and that sounds transactional, and that's not what I mean.
It's just that I need to have a relationship with them because I need their help. I need them. I can't be an attorney without them. So it would be in everybody's best interest for me to, I guess, humble myself and say, hey, look, I'm new at this, and you're not. Can we work together? And that gets me through pretty much every day.
Katalina (15:22)
Yeah. And as a top leader too, how would you make yourself approachable as that person with those like 30-plus years of experience so that you can empower your team and build that trust with them?
Kayla (15:35)
I again make sure to make it a point to talk to everybody as I come across everybody throughout the day. I know we talked about this before. It's very easy to sit at my desk and not get up for six hours. And so I make sure that I don't do that. And that I do go talk to everybody, and I make sure to acknowledge, you know, if not everyone, at least somebody throughout the day. And my office door is always open.
I always, even though I'm working, my office door is open. I've got two chairs sitting in front of my desk. Those are open. Girls, and we do have one male paralegal. He comes in, the girls come in, sit in my chair. So I just kind of make sure to have that, at least I think that they think I have the air of approachability. And so I make
Katalina (16:16)
That's awesome.
Kayla (16:16)
Yeah, I make sure that you know, we're all chatting, we're talking about, you know, yesterday's episode of Love Island, what's everybody watching, what's everybody reading. I, as I've gotten older, I have kind of stopped caring about maybe even just being weird. So I pass out, you know, Valentine's and all sorts of stuff. Little things that go on top of your pens. Just like, I don't know. I just am, just getting silly with it, I guess.
Katalina (16:40)
No, that's great. Like, it's that culture isn't built in a day or in a single reaction. That saying hello means something. It's small, but just the recognition daily is huge. Culture is not built in one moment. It is built daily through consistency. And it's all of these small, consistent interactions that matter.
It's the fact that they know that when they see you, they're gonna recognize whether it's a hello, it's a you did something well, if it's a holiday, they know you're gonna be there. And that also feels like you're creating an environment where they can fall back on you, not only through approachability, but through there's a sense of safety there as well. So it's creating that workplace culture. It's probably fostering productivity and even helping with any conflict prevention that could occur because they're like…
Katalina (17:30)
I don't have to worry about anything. I can go to you. I know you have my back. I have a working relationship with you where there is transparency, and there is safety in speaking up and coming into your office. So huge.
Kayla (17:43)
Yeah, absolutely. And I'm very fortunate in that I came into that culture myself. So our firm has been around for a couple of decades. And that is the type of culture that they established. As I said in my interview, it was like, this is not the firm for you if you know you have a huge ego problem. So I am very fortunate that that's the type of culture, one that is important to me, but also that I found a firm that supports that culture.
So it was a very smooth transition. We all, I think, are all on the same wavelength as far as how we interact in the office and, you know, building relationships with all the wonderful staff that we have here.
Katalina (18:20)
We've talked a little bit about how connection creates this amazing culture within an organization or within a company, but I want to talk a little bit about how this can help in your career, even outside of just a specific company, but your entire career trajectory. Can you kind of talk a little bit about that?
Kayla (18:37)
Yeah, absolutely. So, and this is gonna be specific to the legal field, but the legal field is very tight-knit and kind of small. And so if you are acting a fool in your law firm and you don't work there anymore and then you go work for another firm, people are gonna know, and people are gonna find out.
That was one of the biggest things they taught us in law school: you need to be very careful with the way you treat your classmates and the way you treat your professors and how you act here because everyone here will remember you. And I encounter people I went to law school with almost daily. Because I went to law school here. I went to law school in Dayton. So most of my class is practicing here, and between Columbus, Dayton, Cincinnati, and Kentucky.
So again, I encountered all of those people that I was in class with for three years. And the same thing happens when you graduate and go work for a firm. Everybody knows each other. My best friend from law school works for a creditors' rights firm in Columbus, and her boss is good friends with my boss. And so it's a very small world, and you have to be very intentional with how you act. And your reputation precedes you. So I mean, you might be new at a firm, but it is very likely that they already know you.
Kayla (19:43)
So it's important that you, in any situation ever, regardless of whether it's work or not, conduct yourself in the best light, and you remember that 'cause it will impede your ability to get a job. It can.
Katalina (19:44)
Yeah. As you said, your reputation precedes you. And you said like, this is for the legal industry, but I think it extends far beyond that. Any small industry, or quite frankly, people know people and people talk. A lot of people talk. So whether it is your industry or sometimes even outside of your industry, I think what you said holds true. Your reputation can precede you.
Kayla (20:03)
It does. Yes. I hear from my legal assistants all the time about attorneys that they worked for that they didn't really like because of the way the attorney treated them, blah, blah, blah. At other firms, at, you know, former firms, past firms. So regardless, even if you're an attorney, if you're a legal assistant, if you're whatever, how you act is very important. And how you treat people is very important.
Katalina (20:21)
Yeah. 'Cause burned bridges, yes. Yeah, I actually wrote it down.
Kayla (20:36)
People, what is that phrase? I think we talked about this. People won't remember what you said, but they will remember how you made them feel. Yeah. And it is very true.
Katalina (20:44)
Yes. It's from Maya Angelou. I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel.
Kayla (20:51)
Yeah, absolutely. It is very true.
Katalina (20:55)
Yeah, burned bridges will limit your growth. If you have burned bridges with people, you're gonna struggle for sure.
Kayla (21:00)
Yeah. And it's like I said, the legal community is very small and tight-knit. People talk. It's it can be easy to ruin, I guess, your reputation before you even get out the door.
Katalina (21:13)
And I know this is gonna sound very therapy-y for a minute. But if you haven't been to therapy, I recommend it. I think everybody should check it out at least once. It is amazing. It's an emotional intelligence that you learn. And this is something that I have learned in therapy that I think translates so much into everyday life for everyone. So if you haven't heard it,
Here it is. It's the idea that no matter how you feel, it's a hundred percent right. You can feel so angry, you can feel so upset about anything, whatever it is; what you feel is always right, it is always okay. What matters from there, yeah, but what matters from there is how you act on those feelings. So if you are in the workplace and something went really wrong and you are really upset, you have every right.
Kayla (21:48)
Your feelings are valid.
Katalina (22:00)
To be as upset as you are. But that does not give you the right to go yell at other coworkers or take it out on anyone or act inappropriately. And that's like the whole difference between being your best self, I think, too, that you were talking about before. I kept mulling it over, being like, I think you're right that it is actually kind of easier to be kind and be your best self.
But one thing that could hinder it that I didn't think of before was if your emotions kind of get the better of you. And that comes with practice. So you might occasionally not be your best self just because emotions overcame you. And that's okay. It's a learning process. You'll get there. But to recognize it and be like, okay, I may have reacted to my coworkers or at a vendor incorrectly; that was not appropriate, to check yourself and try to lead with your best foot forward.
Moving forward to create that connection culture.
Kayla (22:55)
Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, I'm guilty of that. I can be in a bad mood. I can get an unfavorable result at a hearing. And someone will walk into my office, you know, with a task, and my body language is very clearly irritated, and I am very transparent. I'm like, I'm not irritated with you. I'm in a bad mood because A, B, or C, and again, building connections. It's like, okay, she, you know, she's having a tough afternoon.
And it has nothing to do with me. And I'm usually pretty good about being transparent in that way. Especially because we have so many really wonderful young ladies that work here. Most of them are in college or about to go to law school. So it's like, I don't know, sometimes it feels a little like a sorority house where I can just walk to the back and be like, my gosh, I'm in such a bad mood. And we can chat it out, and it's fine.
Katalina (23:38)
Yeah. So in total, this idea of connection creates culture. I think it really starts with this idea of the human aspect, followed by that power of appreciation and even just saying hello to people, making sure people are recognized, goes a very, very long way to building that trust and safety and building bridges that may work within your specific organization or might extend outside of your organization.
And ultimately, it's this idea that we started with that people follow people. They follow people that they like, that create connections, and that they trust. 100%. Well, Kayla, thank you so much for coming on with me today. Unfortunately, we are out of time, but it was incredible to have you on. I loved hearing your stories. You were a fantastic guest.
Kayla (24:09)
That they like and they trust. Yeah. Thank you. I appreciate it. Yeah. This is something that I'm very passionate about: working and being kind to the people that I work with, and I think it just kind of creates that longevity, not only in your own reputation, but within your organization. It just makes all the difference.
Katalina (24:39)
Yeah. You are a great example, Kayla, of somebody who leads by example. So I love that so much. Yeah. Well, to all of our listeners or watchers, thank you all for being here today. If you have any questions or comments, please leave them below. We will always do our best to get to all of them. And thank you. We'll see you in our next episode. Bye.
Kayla (24:44)
Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that.
