Katalina (00:10)
Hello and welcome back to another episode of Career Path. I am your host, Katalina. Today we are discussing the topic of Building a Winning Team. And I have an incredible guest here who is going to cover this topic with me. This is Altaf Sayed. I'm sure so many of you in the industry are already familiar with him. You probably know him by his name, Al, and that's what I'm gonna call him the rest of the time. Al has had over 25 years of experience in offshore outsourcing and He has just launched his own BPO, specifically in our industry. It is called Right Shores. He is the CEO and Founder. I'm super excited about it. And I'll tiff at the end, I'd love if you share a little bit about it as well. So make sure you check it out. But overall, Al, I am just stoked to have you here today. Thank you for joining me.
Altaf Sayed (00:56)
Thank you for having me, Katalina. This is a pleasure. I've seen so many of your episodes and I'm just, you know, I'm just feeling honored to be here.
Katalina (01:06)
Thank you. Thank you so much. I didn't know you watched so many of the episodes. That's awesome. and I'm so excited that this is a bonus episode with you. Unlike most of our episodes, this is going out middle of the month, not on a Tuesday. It's going out kind of with the launch of Right Shores. So this is just a very special, exciting time. and we are gonna start the episode the same way we do every other episode, though. Tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got to where you are today.
Altaf Sayed (01:32)
Great question. haven't given an interview in a long time. So it's a little hard for me to put my thoughts together as far as, you know, telling people how I got here. But I'm an engineer by vocation. So, you know, right out of college, right after my engineering, I joined a call center. And this was in early 2000, which was the beginning wave of the call center industry in India. purely to make a buck.
And the intention was I'll work for six months and then I'll go be an engineer and do engineering stuff. And those six months really never ended. I've spent 24 plus years now in the call center industry, outsourcing, offshore, specifically India, and primarily focused on the financial services space. started as a collector on the phones and grew my way up till I left the last company that I was with, the only company that I worked with for so long. I quit as a senior vice president, responsible for the third party working with agencies, debt buyers, law firms, originating creditors, primarily focused on the post charge off space. And I built I built that division almost from scratch, over nine years. but yeah, it's been a great journey. over the years I've done everything from being an agent and being on the phones to being a trainer, manager, HR, analytics and data, facilities and administration, sales. I worn multiple hats and it was time I thought that. I should now take the plunge and do something of my own. So that's the idea behind Right Shores. All the clients that have worked with me and have known me over the years know that I always do right by clients and I do write by employees. And that was the idea of Right Shores, which is to make sure that I can bring the same level of commitment and focus and, performance as a new entrant in this space. Exactly the experience that they'll had, with me when I was working for a different company. So yeah, that's how I'm here.
Katalina (03:29)
Yeah, you have such a a rich background in so many different areas of the BPO world and specifically within our industry itself. I mean, I think you'd be hard pressed to find people who haven't at least heard of you or seen you. They might not know you personally, but have at least seen you at whether it's RMAI, ACA, all the different events. I mean, you've you've made quite a bit of a name for yourself in what you do. And I am so excited.
To see what you are gonna do with Right Shores. I think it's gonna be an incredible venture for you. and if anybody knows how to do it, it's you. That 25 years of experience. Yeah, absolutely. so on that note, clearly you have a lot of experience building teams, not just teams, but winning teams. And when we originally talked about this topic, we brought up the idea of hiring specifically,
Altaf Sayed (04:04)
Thank you, Carolina. Thank you.
Katalina (04:20)
that there is a certain approach to hiring that can set you up for the best success with your Team and that's the idea of hiring for potential not just the resume so I'd love for you to dive in and start at that point.
Altaf Sayed (04:36)
Yeah, and I've, you know, Katalina, I've built and led large, teams across functions, not just operations or sales, but in HR, in administration, in data and analytics. So I think, any role requires two things. One is, of course, the hard skills for the roles. And some roles are more technical than others. Like if you're gonna hire somebody in your development Team or dev Team.
They need to have the hard skills of software and coding and stuff like that. When you're hiring an operations, some of the hard skills are good communication. They should be able to, manage basic mathematics and stuff like that. But then the intangible stuff that a lot of people, well, I wouldn't say a lot, but people tend to overlook is the attitude and the potential that comes in from a person. And Throughout my career, I've always believed in in three things really. One is, you know, hire for potential, but in a half an hour interview, and I'm sure everybody who's listening to this and who does interviews and hires people knows that in a half an hour interview or a 40, 45 minute, one hour interview with a candidate, how much can you really assess them? Right? You come across people who can say all the right things, have, tick all the right boxes on their resume and then you know what I've seen is a lot of time people go into this mode where they're saying, this guy doesn't have this skill versus that skill, right? So the candidate might be great. They they need the job. I think, you know, one is of course you want to hire somebody who needs the job. Second is you need you wanna hire someone who has that yearning for growth, who has
Katalina (06:18)
a drive.
Altaf Sayed (06:19)
You know, who's committed and who's committed and loyal. Because all the other hard skills, unless it's like a very technical division, all the other hard skills are trainable, but you cannot train attitude. So that's one of the things that I always look for, which is pay attention to the personality in front of you. what's the attitude they bring? What's their background? Not from an education perspective, but as a person.
Katalina (06:23)
Yeah. Yeah.
Altaf Sayed (06:46)
and judge if this is something that they will put their heart and soul in because that's the only way they'll succeed. You have, you know, you you come across many people who just come in, just do a nine to five and they don't care about what they're delivering. But then when you find those people who you think really, really are focused on their career and focused on doing right and learning something.
Altaf Sayed (07:11)
Those are the people you want to hire, even if they don't have some of the hard skills that you thought would be necessary for the role, because you know that those can be trained. So that's one. The second thing that I always look for is, you know, and once you once you grow up, you know, or rather go up the the leadership chain, you know, when I
Katalina (07:17)
Yeah.
Altaf Sayed (07:31)
My last role as a vice president, senior vice president, I was hiring A VPs, I was hiring, hiring senior managers, managers, and those are leadership positions, right? one of the things I always focused on was to hire people in my Team that were smarter than me. I but because that's the only way you succeed. That's the only way you succeed as a Team. If you always want to be the smartest person in the room, you will never be able to build a strong, successful Team.
Katalina (07:45)
I love it.
Altaf Sayed (07:59)
You've got to be able to bring in people that complement and sometimes contrast the skills that you have and rely on them and give them the confidence that, you know, I need your help, but if you help me together, we can grow and together we can do something great. So that's the second thing. And the third one is don't be afraid or take a chance on anyone. I've had so many instances in my career where.
Altaf Sayed (08:25)
Somebody was, you know, in an in another interview, he would have probably, you know, he would have probably gotten rejected. But I just thought the person was so needy and was so genuine and honest that I knew I could rely on them or I could take a chance on them. And they've proven me right. So I think don't be afraid to take a chance, give people second chances, in the call center space, There is a transient workforce, at least at the lower levels, at the at the agent or the call center associate levels, they come in right after after college. they, work for six months, two months, a year. And then as soon as they get a hike with another company, because there's a lot of competition in the space, especially from employers. So all the employers are, targeting the same talent pool. So you have people that quit.
A lot of times they don't want to give notice, they just take their salary and they run away. In India, it's a very it's a common practice that if you've not served your notice, then you can be disallowed. The doors for you are always closed in that organization. But my personal experience has been I've given people lots of second chances. I'm not saying every time.
I've given somebody a second chance. They've proved me right. I have fallen on my face a couple of times. But most people who worked with us or worked with me quit for whatever reason, came back two years, three years, five years later saying, you know, I made a mistake, give me that job back or give me give me any job to work with you. I've given them those chances and they've proved me right and I've been extremely, extremely happy with them. So yeah, these are the three things. Pay attention the personality, which is the potential the person has, instead of just the boxes he checks on the resume. Always hire people that are smarter than you. And don't be afraid to take to give someone a second chance and to take chances on people.
Katalina (10:18)
That that last one really resonates with me in particular, because I've had that experience directly, where people have taken a chance on me more than once actually in my career, and it has, I hope, paid off for them as much as I think it paid off for me. one of them being Adam and my current role. I've never been in a position like this before, but Adam saw me and told me to my face like, hey, you have this the attitude, the drive.
And that's what I'm looking for more than I am looking for that, you know, resume stamp that you had that in the past. And from there I was able to get a chance to grow and to prove my worth and and deliver on things that I never thought I even could until I was given the shot to do it. So to me that that really hits home and I feel it deep in my heart. Having those chances that I could grow within have made all the difference for me. And I hope for the people who've given me those chances as well, it's made as much of a difference for. And it also made me think of in one of my episodes, because Jack Gordon has been on twice and is slated to come on at least one more time for Career Path to Right? Isn't he amazing? Shout out to Jack. in his stories about being an entrepreneur, if I'm not mistaken, he had a very, very, very similar story.
Altaf Sayed (11:27)
Awesome, love the guy. Jack is great.
Katalina (11:37)
Where he took a chance on somebody who he was like, I think this guy's got the talent. He just doesn't have the resume. and he just doesn't seem like the the typical guy people would hire, but I think I'm gonna take a chance on him. And he did, and it paid off so much. The guy I think is what ended up making his entire company. ⁓ and I I'm pretty sure this is the story. I'm sorry, Jack, if I'm telling it wrong, but if I'm I
Altaf Sayed (11:57)
Awesome.
Katalina (12:03)
Remembering correctly, he even said to Jack at one point, like, Thank you for taking a chance on me. And that it's just, it can be so impactful. It is a chance, like you said, you might fall on your face, but there's also a chance that the success that lies on the other side is worth any risk of taking that chance on that person. So aside from the hiring, let's talk about from a leadership perspective.
Altaf Sayed (12:25)
I agree.
Katalina (12:32)
Taking your Team day by day, what are the things that you can do to kind of build up your Team, build them up for success?
Altaf Sayed (12:40)
So there are so many different management, trainings that you can go to and learn so many different skills of how to be a good manager and leader and stuff like that. But at at its core, I think there are a few things that I've always focused on when I've led people. one is it's never about the carrot or the stick. It's about being honest with the person. Unfortunately I've had to like all leaders let people go in their careers. There are a number of times that I have some of those things where, which tie into the first point, which is giving people a chance and then falling flat on your face because, your gut said something, but the person wasn't able to deliver. that's happened to me a couple of times, but whenever I've had to let somebody go, I I still have good relations with everybody that I had let go.
Because I sat them down and said, Hey, you know, it's it's not that you're a bad person. It's the job that's incompatible. The skills that you have is not what I'm looking for. And the skills that I need or what I need, you're not able to deliver. So let's be friends, no hard feelings, figure out you need some time to find a job. There are times when I've had these conversations with people two months ahead of time, three months ahead of time, not saying, Your here's your notice, and you're fired. But I know everybody's got financial responsibilities. take your time. I can give you a month, go find a job. As soon as you find a job, let's just continue to be friends. But I don't think you and I can work together. And those kind of honest conversations have one is it kind of is a good segue into my second point, which is respect.
Altaf Sayed (14:17)
I've always led a Team from a perspective of I don't really care if you love me or you hate me. All I want is that you respect me because you know that if you if I have to make a decision, the decision will be fair. It may not be in your favor or it may be in your favor. That is not what I'm looking at when I'm making a decision. The only thing I'm looking at when I'm making a decision is is it going to be a fair decision for everybody involved?
Altaf Sayed (14:45)
And, as long as you have respect, which is how people that I've let go of have always had respect for me. They're still in touch with me. You know, some of them have gone on to do really good things with their careers, doing things that I couldn't offer them, right? The role that I had, it wasn't the role that they were compatible to, but they found something that was their calling and they did really well for themselves. And they've always respected me for the fact that I didn't make it acrimonious.
I did not talk down to them. It was never, you know, if you can't get this done, I'm gonna put you on a performance improvement plan and then HR policy and then we're gonna separate from you or terminate you or whatever. Or, here's the carrot, here's the incentive I've giving giving you to perform. It was never that way. Yes, you wanna reward people who do a good job, and yes, you wanna give feedback to people who are not cutting it.
But always do it with respect. And you know, as long as you maintain that, you will always have the respect of the people that you lead. So that's point two. And that you know, one of the other things that I really, really kind of promote, and this is not coming from me, you know, I've had the privilege of having worked for some really great leaders in my career.
Everybody, you know, fortunately, I've had amazing managers that I've always reported to, including my last boss, which was the CEO. one of the things that I learned from him is the importance of one-on-one meetings. it's I cannot tell you how important of a tool that is. You know, when you're when you're when you're managing a remote Team, or especially if you're managing. In office Team, right? Where the Team sits together, you're sitting with the rest of your Team, you got your managers around you, you're gonna probably talk to them 10 times a day, you know, every day. And then you feel that, I'm giving him enough time and you know, I'm giving him enough opportunities and there's enough opportunities for us to connect. But having a scheduled formal one-on-one meeting with your direct reports.
Altaf Sayed (16:49)
Is extremely important because that's the one hour, 30 minutes, whatever time you set. That's the one hour where you can say, Hey, this is your time. I want to get to know you. I want to make sure that I'm giving you the right feedback and you know, I'm helping guide your career in the right way, you know, and correct course if you're going wrong. But that is one of the most invaluable tools to a leader, which is having
Katalina (17:19)
Percent.
Altaf Sayed (17:19)
One on formal one-on-one meetings, scheduled, build that cadence. And I've tried throughout my career to try and build that cadence and drive that cadence down to my leaders as well, for them to have one-on-ones with their teams and then all the way down. A lot of times people think I talk to them five times a day. I mean, what else am I gonna do in a one-on-one?
Katalina (17:31)
Yeah.
Altaf Sayed (17:39)
You don't know how that one on one's gonna go once the cadence is built and once you've done it four or five weeks, then you realize how important and how effective that that one on one is.
Katalina (17:42)
Yeah. So to anyone listening, Altaf is spot on here. And and I'm saying this from personal experience because it wasn't too long ago that Altaf gave me this exact piece of advice, and I just recently implemented it. so to anybody who watched the episode with Shelby Morlock about
Leadership by Design. You might know that I did not have a lot of training on how to be a leader myself. And Altaf has been incredible in giving me like these nuggets of wisdom, these pieces of advice along the way. And this was one of them. And I just implemented it. And let me tell you the difference in the connection with my Team members. I thought, like you said, I'm like, I talk to them all the time. It's fine. And then the difference in the connection, it's palpable. It is. And at the end of the first meeting, I even asked both of the Team members that I did it with, because they're the leads of their own departments. I said, hey, how did you like this? How often would you like this? I originally set it for like every other week. And both of them went, I'd like to talk to you weekly like this. It was, it was that much for them. And I was like, this is amazing. I'm so glad to know that, to be building that connection even deeper with my Team and have a better understanding of where they're at where I can support them, it has made such a big difference. So thank you, Al, for that piece of advice to me. And anyone who's listening, if you're not doing it, do it. He's right. He knows what he's talking about.
Altaf Sayed (19:07)
Do it. Do your one on ones. Set one on ones with the people that you lead.
Altaf Sayed (19:13)
Absolutely. Yep. So yeah, so that's those are some of the things, you know, there are so many other things. one of the things that I always tell my leaders is you know how you conduct yourself matters. Especially in the industry that I am in, which is outsourcing and BPO. It's a human intensive industry.
Altaf Sayed (19:33)
Which means we're always surrounded by people. There's always a lot of people in your in your Team. You know 2000, 3000, 100,000 is a is not a big number in the call center space. Right. so one of the things that I always tell my leaders is the moment you walk in the door and you enter the office, you've got to always be aware that somebody is watching.
Altaf Sayed (19:59)
Because a lot of the people that we employ are in their early 20s, late 20s, early 30s, right? So they're especially people who are or you know, employees that we have in their early 20s, they're extremely impressionable. They're starting their careers and they are gonna look at the leaders that they are surrounded by for guidance and for how they want to be in their career going forward. So A lot of times you might not notice, but there's somebody on your floor or in your Team that really considers you a role model. They may never tell you, but they have that target. that, you know what, two years down the line, that's the position I want to be at. And they are gonna use you as that yardstick to figure out how to do that job. So always be careful how you speak, how you dress, how you talk, how you walk.
What you say, how you look at people, how you're conducting yourself, all of that is extremely important. That's another thing, you know, from a leadership perspective that I and you know, I will pull up people if I see them doing something wrong. Like one example, I had this manager, right? He wasn't rude, but his tone of voice always came out, you know, sounded very rude.
Altaf Sayed (21:14)
And he wasn't reporting me because he was like three levels down or something. And then I happened to call his desk phone one day and he picked up and no greeting, nothing. It just came out like as if he's doing me a favor by answering the phone, right? Of course, he didn't recognize me because the moment he recognized who the call was from from, the tone changed completely. He was like, hi, Al, how can I help you? You know, but before that, I was like, Hello, hello. That was the the way he answered the phone. So after I finished that call, I met with him, I said, you're sitting around at least 50 people sitting around you and they're seeing you talk like that. What do you think is the impression that you are creating in their eyes when you answer the phone that way, when you talk to people that way? They might feel that that's the right way to be a leader. And that's not the kind of leadership that we want. I know you're not that kind of person.
Katalina (21:56)
Yeah. Yeah.
Altaf Sayed (22:01)
And it's just, you know, your tone's that way, but you've got to work on that. You have to work on when you come in, even when you just generally in life, you don't want to sound rude to people because not only people who know you will realize that that's just who you are and you're not being rude. But to most people, you might just sound rude. So yeah, I mean, I used to call call out people all the time for how they dress, how they talk, what they say.
Katalina (22:13)
Yeah. Yeah. And that extends beyond leadership too. I would say the the idea of how you present yourself matters in every area. A hundred percent a lot for leaders because eyes are on you. You are the role model. ⁓ but for other people as well, like I have not seen it personally, but I've been hearing like on the news that there's such an influx of people going to job interviews in sweatpants, just not looking professional, not shaking hands, not
Altaf Sayed (22:38)
Yes, hundred percent.
Katalina (22:53)
Doing the things that show other people respect. So how you show up matters. The way you dress, the way you act, the way you speak, like you said, even just your tone. It means a lot to people. It it's the perception that you put out of yourself to others. And we'll never get to know the real you if that's what you're putting out there.
Altaf Sayed (23:12)
Since you brought up the interview, something that just popped into my head is I've seen a lot of people take interviews like they are doing the candidate a favor.
Katalina (23:22)
Interesting.
Altaf Sayed (23:23)
So you so they'll sit in an interview with this very authoritative tone you know, stance, like as if your life is now in my hands. I can decide whether you get hired or not.
Katalina (23:34)
Interesting.
Altaf Sayed (23:35)
It happens a lot. And I've seen that and I've called so many people out in my in my career because when I interview somebody, the first thing I want to make sure is that they are comfortable. I want because if they are guarded, you will never get to see who that person really is. It's all gonna be a facade that they're gonna put up because they're constantly guarded. So the first thing I always do in an interview is set up or set the person at ease, you know.
Katalina (23:48)
Yeah.
Altaf Sayed (24:03)
Break the ice, let them know this is not the end of the world. It's gonna be a conversation, you know, and I just wanna get to know you. Make them feel that even if they don't get a job, they're not gonna go, with a bad taste in their mouth. But I've seen people that will just sit, they'll sit, lean back, look at the resume. Okay, so tell me about yourself. So why did you do this? What did you achieve here? It's like, it's like an interrogator.
Katalina (24:27)
Yeah.
Altaf Sayed (24:28)
So again, as a leader, that's not how you want to present yourself. You want to present because it's not just about you wanting to hire that person. That person also should be wanting to work for you. Because if they feel that they can't work for you, then what's the point?
Katalina (24:32)
Yeah. 100%. Yeah. If there feels like there's there's like a wall there or something, they're not gonna want to be a part of your Team. so we've talked a little bit about from this like leadership perspective, you're the hiring, the the different ways you can lead, that building respect to build that winning Team. but what we started touching on and what I wanna dive a little bit more into is the setting yourself up for success as a Team member.
Altaf Sayed (24:50)
Carolina, did I lose you?
Katalina (25:08)
That you are actually part of the equation. So this goes back to what we were saying about how you present yourself really matters, not just as a leader, but like if you are coming on new as a Team, even if you're gonna be a leader on the Team, you are part of the equation in your own success. So the fact that you show up, the fact that you have a good attitude, those things speak volumes.
I'm gonna also share a story here, a little bit about something that happened to me back when I worked in jewelry. Because if you know me, you know I have a weird career path where I've done a bunch of different odd jobs. And I actually did work in jewelry for a while. and this story lives in my head rent free all the time. I swear, I think about it on and off here and there because it just bothered me for so long. It was with a particular coworker at the time. And what happened was she and I were kind of at odds So I I know I can be a bit of a perfectionist. She was, let's just say a little bit of an opposite of a perfectionist, whatever that kind of you picture in your mind for that. but we would do things and I would get very frustrated at her.
Because it just seemed very sloppy. She just kept doing things very sloppily. And at one point, we kind of came to a head where we were doing something so simple. It was a little black tray like this size with little compartments in it. And we were putting chains in there, like different gold chains with different sizes. So the 14 inch, the 16 inch, et cetera. And we had a little label maker. So we were making the labels to put the different sizes and then arrange the. Chains in the tray. And she's doing this half of the tray, and I'm doing this half of the tray. And every label I go to put on, I line it up very nicely, and I make sure it's fully on. It looks very nice. I've trimmed off the edges that don't fit, and it's just on there very, very nicely. And on her side, she is slapping on the labels sideways, partially peeling off. It just looks terrible. She's just slapping them on. And I was like, Why, why are you doing this? Why are you doing this? And This is when she kind of blew up at me because I guess I've asked her too much why she does things like this. And she's like, it doesn't matter, Kat. It just it doesn't matter. Why are you bothering me? This doesn't go in front of the client. It only goes to us. So it literally doesn't matter. Like, lay off, it doesn't matter. And I sat with that. I went, okay.
Doesn't matter to you. I'm gonna just take this and walk away. And then it bothered me for like the next seven years. still bothers me a little bit to this day. Cause I would think about it and think about it and go, why did it bother me so much? Because yeah, it wasn't client-facing. It was just a simple label so we could grab the chains quickly. Why did it bother me? And I think I have finally figured out why. And this goes exactly into what we were talking about, Al.
This idea of like how you present yourself matters because it reveals things about you. The first thing that she was revealing about her was her work ethic. In just that action, I was seeing what you and I were talking about at the very beginning of this episode. Her attitude, the thing that you can't teach. Her attitude was, I don't care. I don't care. She did not have drive, and it was revealed in that very action.
The second big thing she revealed is that she does not respect her job. She doesn't respect her job, but by extension, she doesn't respect our place of employment. And she doesn't respect anybody else who she works with, her teammates, myself included. Because in that small action, it took me maybe three seconds more to make sure the labels were even.
And she didn't want to give that effort. So she doesn't respect me as a teammate or any other teammates that have to use this thing. She doesn't respect the company. She doesn't respect the job or the career as a whole. And she's showing us her attitude is I don't care. And kind of like what you were saying, like you're just lucky I showed up today. And that's why ultimately I figured out it bothered me so much because that's what that small action revealed. And paying attention to those things, they matter. How she showed up that day really, really mattered. And I wasn't her superior somebody who could talk to her about it, but I'm like, wow, what a moment where you can see the impact of small behaviors and actions.
Altaf Sayed (29:31)
Yep, 100%. Perfect. This is exactly what I was talking about. That's exactly how, you know, how you can really, really mess up your career if you're not really showing up to work. You can show up and then s you know, do lazy work throughout the day, but somebody's watching and it's not gonna go, it's not gonna last long. So you've got to deliver, you've gotta have the right attitude. And you know, as leaders, we wanna hire for the right attitude. The skills can be taught, but the attitude you can you cannot teach.
Katalina (30:03)
Yeah. You have to be part of the equation. You have to step up yourself. Well, Altaf, this has been an incredible conversation. Thank you so much for joining me today. unfortunately, we have run out of time, but I encourage anyone, if you want to talk to Al more about building a winning Team, please connect with him. He is not only incredible in what he does in his career, but he's an Awesome person, a fun time. Like, please connect with Al. Again, thank you so much for being on with me today.
Altaf Sayed (30:33)
Thank you. It was a pleasure, Katalina. I'm gonna be at the ACA. So if any of you, any of your viewers are gonna be at the ACA conference in July, reach out to me. I'm still gonna be in the industry, so I'll be at all the shows, ACA, NCBA, RMAI, all of them. So I definitely look forward to making more connections, talking to more people, throwing ideas in the air and discussing how their leadership journey's been, and what learnings they've had and maybe do a compare and contrast with with mine. that would be great. I'm starting a new journey with Right Shores and the intention is what I've always done, which is doing right by my clients, doing right by the employees and making sure that we build a strong winning Team together.
Katalina (31:22)
Yes. So if you're gonna be at ACA annual in 2026, he's probably gonna be there next year too, but I'm just throwing in the year in case people listen to this later. Meet Al. He's incredible. I I swear by it. Trust me, make time meet Al. to any of our listeners as well. If you have any questions, comments, or topics you would like to see us cover in the future, please leave them in the comments below. As always, we will do our best to get to all of them. But thank you so much for joining us today, and we will see you in the next episode. Bye.
Altaf Sayed (31:29)
Bye-bye. Thank you.
