Katalina (00:00.908)

Hello and welcome back to another episode of Career Path. I am your host, Catalina. Today we will be discussing when life surprises you, thriving on an unexpected path. And I am super excited because I have a personal friend of mine joining us today for this discussion, the wonderful Katie Zuggsay. Now, in addition to being one of the sweetest people I've ever met in my life, Katie is the founder and owner of the Nexus Insurance Agency and outside of work, she is an avid surfer.

Katie, it is such a pleasure to have you on today. Thank you so much for joining me.

Katie Zugsay (00:33.253)

Thanks for having me. Yeah, I'm excited to be. I've been looking forward to this for a long time. Excited to be on your team.

Katalina (00:37.676)

Fantastic. I'm so excited. Thank you. So before we get started, I'm going to do this because we're going to cut it out. Did I say your company name correct? Phinexist. OK. Yeah. OK. We'll cut this out. But I just suddenly realized I was like, I forgot to ask you to pronounce that. So we'll cut this out. But OK, Katie, so let's get started by can you tell us a little bit about yourself and how you get to where you are today?

Katie Zugsay (00:48.095)

I didn't even catch it, yes. Phinexes? Phinexes.

Katie Zugsay (00:56.499)

Yeah.

Katie Zugsay (01:06.671)

Sure, so I actually...

And I hear this a lot. A lot of people say like, I never thought I be in the collection space. And so I have a similar story. I was planning on being a missionary, actually, a missionary nurse. so I was just going to as soon as I graduated high school, was just going to go to Bible college, which I ended up doing just to get a foundation. And then I was going to ship off to whatever country, whatever people group, wherever the

need was the greatest. I was going to just pour my whole life out and just, you know, administer whatever needed or teach or whatever. And that was going to be my full time, full life job. And I was convinced I didn't even think of anything else. and then I as soon as I graduated Bible college, and I've transferred the credits to Dallas Baptist University and was, is that your cat?

Katalina (02:06.592)

Yes, I'm sorry. I'm going to kick him out of the room because he keeps doing this.

Katie Zugsay (02:14.968)

you

Katalina (02:21.034)

Okay, stay out there.

Katie Zugsay (02:23.557)

So cute.

Katalina (02:24.94)

He's so sad. I went to close the door and he's like, little face. What the heck, mom? You're so mean. All right, sorry. So you're the college, Johns Hopkins, you said?

Katie Zugsay (02:29.925)

I don't, you love me anymore.

Katie Zugsay (02:35.47)

Thanks.

Katie Zugsay (02:39.542)

no, Dallas Baptist University?

Katalina (02:42.648)

Okay. Sorry. Okay. So the college was...

Katie Zugsay (02:44.545)

I'm not.

Katie Zugsay (02:48.867)

Dallas Baptist University and then,

Katie Zugsay (03:00.885)

so as soon as I graduated from Dallas Baptist University, then I was, no, no, no, sorry, I need to back up.

Katalina (03:10.497)

Yeah, go ahead.

Katie Zugsay (03:11.427)

While I was studying, just to finish out my undergrad degree, was running cross country and I realized I would be a terrible nurse. I was in the cross country clinic and they had these little models of the joints and the ligaments in your feet and your ankles and everything. Not even with blood or anything like that. And I got woozy just looking at those things.

Katalina (03:37.606)

no!

Katie Zugsay (03:38.721)

to be a I would be a terrible nurse and that you know the whole plan was to finish undergrad and go straight to nursing school and ship off. I was like well I don't really know what the plan is going to be but I'm still gonna just show up and I'm sure there's going to be a need and I'm just going to plug right into that need and go from there and all the doors were just closing. It was strange like there were just there was always a reason that I was disqualified or just not the right fit for

Katie Zugsay (04:08.313)

the opportunities that I saw to go and help. I was so discouraged by that. I was working at Bank of America at the time. At the time, my attitude was just like, I'm not corporate material. Don't even learn my name. I'm just working here to just pay my way through school and then I'm out. I'm really not trying to stay here or build a career at all. Five, six, seven years in, I'm like, well, I guess I'm here.

Katalina (04:14.786)

Yeah.

Katie Zugsay (04:38.039)

was right about the time that I was like, I guess I'm not going to be a missionary. I don't know what my plan is. And I graduated from undergrad with a communications degree. And I stumbled into an opportunity at the bank. So if anybody's worked at a bank before, know they speak in acronyms. It's like the government in that sense, or the military. Everything is acronyms. And so I had just become a f-

Katalina (05:00.531)

Yes.

Katie Zugsay (05:06.595)

facilitators, so basically a corporate trainer. So I was training the new hire classes in the bank regs and customer service at a call center. And so there was just an all hands on deck call and they needed all of the facilitators to consider going to this DDI course in Charlotte, North Carolina, which is like the Mecca Bank of America or at the time, maybe it still is.

I was like, well, I would love to travel on the bank's dime. So, okay. And so I was like, I'll go. And so I volunteered because I'm like, yeah, DDI, that's a statement retrieval system. I never got formal training on it, but I could train somebody on it. It's pretty basic. so I said, yeah, send me. And so they were like, are you sure? Do you have any formal, are you certified in DDI? was like,

No, so send me as a student and I'll get certified. And they're like, okay. So I show up in Charlotte and they put me up in this beautiful hotel and I find myself surrounded by people all my parents age and they're all senior vice presidents and at the top of their game in business and very corporate, very sophisticated and polished. And I'm wondering what in the world I've made a terrible mistake. What am I doing here?

What is this? This is not DDI. I don't know what this is. And so it was Development Dimensions International, which is an executive training course. And it was on the CEO at the time of Bank of America, had it on his to-do list to train the executive senior executives of each division, have the developers of DDI train each leader and have them train their divisions.

So they had all the right people there except for me. I had no corporate training, nothing. No experience to draw from. I certainly was not leading a division of any kind. I was miles from that. And so I went back to my hotel room that night and just was just sobbing. Like I don't know any way to.

Katalina (06:58.677)

Yeah

Katie Zugsay (07:16.069)

I don't have any experience to draw from that. I have no point of reference for this. What have I got myself into? at that moment, a former friend of mine, a youth pastor that I had kind of lost touch with for a couple of years called me and was just saying, you were just on, you came to mind. I'm wondering what you're doing. Well, how are you doing? What's going on? And I was just like.

I'm about to fail. That's what I'm doing. and he just was like, no, like, I think this is, you know, this you're, you're going to be fine. And so, you know, here, and he just reminded me of the things that are true about the situation. He's like, write these down on a piece of paper and then wear something with pockets tomorrow. And so, it's your nerve, just put your hands in your pockets and you'll, it'll remind you of, you know, the things that you're going to need to remember just to stay calm and, and, you know, just have peace through this and

Katie Zugsay (08:08.845)

And so I did, and I studied as much as I could and I delivered the training right back to the developers and they signed off on me. And before I knew it, I was back in the call center at Bank of America in Dallas where I was living at the time. And they had a session coming up just a couple of weeks later of senior leaders and executives in the technology division. And would I be a co-leader of that session?

So I was like, you well, as long as the person who's delivering that session is experienced, I'll just sit in the back and I'll just absorb, just watch. be a little, I'll just be a little sponge. I'll just listen and watch and then I'll learn and grow because I'm just like Bambi back here. Like I know what I'm talking about or what I'm doing. so we, it's fast forward to the...

Katalina (08:56.608)

Yeah.

Katie Zugsay (09:05.413)

the conference and it was just a couple minutes before the session was going to begin. So we're in a back room. I'm in a back room with the main speaker and we're just flipping through the slides just to kind of review. And he's like, you know, you can do this, right? Like you could be the main speaker, right? And I was like, no, I'm not sure that I, I'm not sure about that, but I will watch you and I'll learn from it. And he's like, no, you know, I mean, I,

Katalina (09:26.552)

Thank

Katie Zugsay (09:33.077)

I think you should know that you can do this. And so yeah, we're gonna do this. So on the first slide was our names, his in bold and then mine kind of in small little letters underneath and he switched it. And it was just like three minutes if that before we were supposed to start. And so we walk into this giant ballroom full of very sophisticated business people.

Katalina (09:46.796)

my gosh, the spotlight is on you.

Katie Zugsay (10:03.053)

And we walked to the back to the sound booth. He's like, all right, change of plan, boys. We're going to have to mic her. She's going to be the main speaker. And then just go ahead and mic me up just in the back. don't turn on my microphone yet. And then seconds later.

Katalina (10:20.578)

Wow, what a sink or swim moment. really, he really put you up there and was like, all right, take it away.

Katie Zugsay (10:28.601)

Seconds later, I was on stage, whisked on to stage, introduced, so it was beyond my expectations. I had cotton mouth for the first time in my life. I didn't even know what that was, but my mouth went completely dry, and I was just terrified, but I did it, and it was beyond anything that I knew that I could even do at all. so being able to lead and facilitate conversations, so I've...

Katalina (10:52.248)

Wow.

Katie Zugsay (10:57.067)

realized I didn't have to have all the answers. I didn't have to get up there and lecture and teach everybody. I was able to kind of leverage when somebody would have a question. I was there were so many competent people in that room. I was able to leverage their experience and their wisdom, and tie that into the material. And then and the questions were answered through that. And so it was

Katalina (11:01.29)

Yeah.

Katalina (11:14.219)

Yeah.

Katalina (11:20.299)

Yeah, what a great thing. I did something very similar when I did a presentation recently where somebody asked a phenomenal question. I'm supposed to be the expert on this item and we're talking and talking and then he asked this question. was like,

And I told him that straight out. said, you know what? I have no idea. But my boss, if you think I'm an expert, my boss makes me look like an idiot when it comes to this stuff. So you know what? I'm going to go back. I'm going to consult him on this. I'm going to grab your email after this session and anybody else who wants to hear the answer to this, give me your email and I'm going to send out the answer. And you know that I did the same thing you did. You lean on people around you and you can still be

ready to give a presentation without having every answer. Even though you feel like you should, you're like, I should know absolutely everything going in. You don't necessarily have to. that's, holy moly. I cannot believe you did that. That's incredible.

Katie Zugsay (12:24.357)

It was definitely a heart pounding eye opening moment for me. I will never forget it. And so there were sessions after that where I was able to hone the skills a little bit better in terms of presenting. But yeah, definitely was eye opening because it made me think that, you know, I...

I guess I'm supposed to be in the business world or in a corporate environment. And that's the last place that I ever foresaw my path leading.

Katalina (12:58.168)

100%. That is so common out here in our industry specifically too. Like nobody, well, okay, a couple of people, maybe they meant to be here, but most people kind of stumbled into it. I mean, I stumbled into it with such a weird past of things that I was doing too. I always wanted to go the like acting performance route and I still do stuff on the side, but like that's not my career path right now.

started doing marketing while I was doing performance things. And then from marketing, I ended up getting a job with an AI company that serviced this industry. just like such a roundabout way. And suddenly I'm like, I'm in the receivables industry. it is it's so interesting how people end up here. And from what I hear from most people, once you end up here, you don't necessarily leave. Or at least you stay connected somehow.

Katie Zugsay (13:53.082)

Thanks

It's just a cool community. That's what I found. yeah, it's full. I've met so many genuine and winsome, just wonderful people in this community. But yeah.

Katalina (14:12.888)

So can you share a little bit about how you went from, maybe I belong in this corporate. So it seems like you were kind of in the finance side of things, but then how did you get into the law side?

Katie Zugsay (14:25.391)

So shortly after I started presenting GDI materials, pretty much immediately was like, probably need to catch my education up to these opportunities. I want to.

I want to get qualified to do these things sincerely. so I pursued, I applied for business school at the local university, which was Southern Methodist University. lived just a few miles away from it, so it made the most sense. And I got in and I went to the orientation and it...

It just felt wrong to me. And it was just, it was like I swallowed a beehive. I felt very unsettled about it. And I was like that, and I can't explain it because it's very, it's, it's a wonderful opportunity. It's a privilege to have been.

accepted into this program and but it just felt like it just wasn't my path. It was very interesting material already there, you even in the orientation they were getting us exposed to certain ideas and and new concepts and it was very intriguing. But I knew it wasn't the path for me. And so I was at a tailgating party at SMU just with friends and family and

We were talking to some of the law students and I was like, well, what makes a good lawyer? What are the qualities that make a good lawyer? And the response astonished me because it just described who I knew myself to be. it was just the, I was expecting somebody to say, you know, gotta be a bully. You know, gotta win every argument and just, know, bulldoze over. Why?

Katalina (16:08.822)

Yeah, you have to be a shark in the water, smelling blood, that sort of thing.

Katie Zugsay (16:13.589)

Yeah, just a taste for blood, calloused and just a total jerk. instead it was, you it was you have to be thoughtful, analytical, enjoy reading and be able to keep a cool head whenever you're tossing ideas back and forth. You know, maybe in the heat of an argument or something if you can keep a cool head and...

stay cerebral. But if you can see both sides of most issues, that's really helpful. It would be a strength for any lawyer to be successful. And I was like, holy crap, that's me. I can do that. That describes me. And I never thought that nobody ever said that little Bambi over here with Bambi eyes and a school marm voice.

Katalina (16:55.127)

Yeah.

Katalina (17:06.604)

Yeah.

Katie Zugsay (17:07.203)

really be good as, you in the courtroom, like as a lawyer. It's not what you see.

Katalina (17:10.476)

Yeah. So real quick, I want to touch on what you said, because that's so interesting about lawyers. And I feel like I've never heard it before. That duality of you need to see both sides all the time. That is so interesting. So does that come from a place of like, you need to be able to play devil's advocate to counter opposition to your side? Like, I'm curious to hear a little bit more about that.

Katie Zugsay (17:36.761)

Yeah, well, you can make the strongest arguments when you can anticipate the counter argument and address it before your opponent even brings it up. And that kind of can help neutralize it if you can just address it in advance. So, they're, you know, they're my opponent's going to tell you that blah, blah, blah. But really, here's the here's the situation. And then it it automatically somewhat just discredits, you know, what the other side may say or or if, know, it just it helps to be able to just anticipate.

anticipate the way of the land or the argument.

Katalina (18:09.986)

Yeah, and see things from all different sides instead of only coming at it from one angle. That's so cool. Okay, sorry. Got a little sidetracked right there. I was very interested.

So it really embodied you and that is super cool. And you were just like, wow, maybe out of being this missionary, maybe my true calling is actually something totally out of left field that I never ever considered a lawyer.

Katie Zugsay (18:35.939)

Yeah, it was very astonishing. It was a very astonishing path. It took me a long time to get used to the fact that, okay, here I am. Now I'm a law student. Thought I was going to be a missionary. Here I am in the law library reading cases because I'm a law student. I was just pinching myself pretty often. But yeah, got through and...

But I graduated in 2011, and so there were almost no jobs waiting for us. Normally there would be. As graduates of SMU in Dallas, there's a little bit of nepotism, just enough where you can network your way into jobs fairly easily. But.

at the time there were jobs but we were competing against graduates from Harvard Law, Yale Law, and everywhere else because there were no jobs anywhere else and so it was very tough and so I

was working at an employment law firm, but they didn't even need me. They just kept me on because they liked me. But just to answer phones and get coffee and help with some cases and get some good exposure to the courtroom, et cetera. I was able to sit second chair with a couple of things, but for the most part, it

They just get me on while I job search, which was so kind. But a couple of months went by and there wasn't anything. And then I got a call from...

Katie Zugsay (20:05.009)

She was then Dina Hatfield at SWC Group just saying, know, I have your resume even though you didn't give it to me. And here's the situation. And I was like, what? That's awesome. I had applied for an employment law firm down in San Antonio. And it happened to be the law firm that they used for their employment practices for their.

as their employment counsel. And so I had had a little bit of experience in the clinic, in law school, dealing with some consumer law, but and actually debt collection, but I was on the other side, I was representing the plaintiff. But she saw FDCPA on there and was like, here's your candidate. If you're looking to bring somebody in house, here's the perfect person. it really was such a godsend.

I mean, not but, but it was amazing to be able to go in-house right away because my thought before was, okay, I'm going to work at a law firm.

very long hours for a very long time. And then, you know, eventually I'll come up and see the sunlight and I'll be able to go in house and work an eight to five job. But before then I'm prepared for the normal route, is, was in my perception, I'm going to be just a grim existence of working 80, a hundred hour weeks and just not really seeing the light of day very often, but that's, that's

Katalina (21:36.311)

Yeah.

Katie Zugsay (21:37.315)

That's life. And that was the normal route at that time for lawyers. And then after a while, you've built up enough time. You put it, you've done your time and then you can go in house. To get an opportunity to go straight in house was beyond my expectations. And the fact that...

the hiring manager was saying, you know, I didn't even want to sift through a thousand resumes. I just want to talk to you. And there's a couple other people that they sent my way. That was incredible. And I was like, yeah, but I, I don't know yet. I don't know very much. I'm just a baby. Like I'm a baby lawyer. I'm a new graduate. Just so you know, I want you to know I don't have much experience, although I know you can see that on my resume. And she's like, that's fine.

Katalina (22:16.694)

I'm

Katie Zugsay (22:25.029)

We don't want anybody with bad habits. We want to teach you negotiating. It's such a specialized industry. We want to negotiate against these plaintiff's attorneys. they didn't sue anybody. was all defense, managing the defense for the company and also responding to AG or BBB complaints as they came in, and also just advising on compliance.

Katalina (22:28.449)

like

Katalina (22:34.594)

Yeah.

Katalina (22:54.838)

Yeah, so I'm very interested to hear how you felt, because we already talked about getting into this industry is usually very roundabout and you don't necessarily expect it. But how did you feel when you first got into the industry? Because there tends to be a really bad reputation out there for the industry as a whole, which is kind of very sad, because they're some of the nicest people in the world in this industry.

It's very friendly. It's not at all what people see. I watched the movie, Confessions of a Shopaholic, like yesterday or something, and they villainize people in receivables. Villainize like crazy and like pretend that we do these horrible outlandish things and it's like, wow, there is a horrible perception of what's actually going on here.

So when I first joined the industry, I even had a family member comment, like, why would you work for the bad guys? Like, you're working for horrible people. And I was like, no, I'm not. think you have a bad conception of what this is. And it even took me a while to kind of get some of this shame that I feel like is put on you for being in this industry off and being like, hey, there's misconceptions left and right. And it's...

not a bad thing and people need to understand that or have an open mind about it. But how did you feel when you first joined that, especially being on the litigation side of things?

Katie Zugsay (24:29.731)

Yeah, managing the defense litigation, I really at first was very apprehensive because I wasn't sure if I was the good guy or the bad guy in the equation. Just like you said, I was like, are we the good guys or the bad guys? I don't know. I liked it. Yeah, I don't know. I really hope that we're the good guys. And if we're not, I'm glad that I have some influence that I can help.

Katalina (24:44.664)

Are we the bad guys? I don't know. Am the drama?

Katie Zugsay (24:57.347)

you know, if we're not compliant with consumer protection laws, which it seemed like they very much were, you know, things buttoned up and good processes in place. But if I see anything else, you know, maybe I'll be the one that's, you know, gonna whip them into shape or something, baby lawyer, as a baby lawyer. But anyway, you know, that was like my consolation in case we're the bad guys. But it was, it just didn't take long at all before I realized like, no, these are great people and they are earnest.

Katalina (25:12.909)

Yeah.

Katie Zugsay (25:27.193)

you know, sincere and trying to help resolve these accounts. And, you know, if they're disputed, they're not trying to collect it. it's, you know, it's, it was very, I knew right away that I was on the good side and that a few dealings with some of the plaintiff's attorneys really confirmed that. I'll never forget, I was in the break room. It was just a couple months into starting this new position and

I just was furious because all of the ethical rules were being violated left and right, like by the plaintiff's side, the side that was holding themselves out as the knight in shining armor and the good guys. And they're going to...

Katalina (26:14.189)

Yeah.

Katalina (26:17.874)

We're defending the consumer and they're actually the ones violating.

Katie Zugsay (26:22.125)

Yes, just left right and said it's just flagrantly, just flagrant disregard for it, for any kind of fairness or truth, let alone ethics, things that I had, it was just so fresh in my mind as a recent law student. And it just all was, you know, none of it was being respected. And then the plaintiff's attorneys were not even functioning as attorneys. They just were trying to shake out kind of sending

ransom letter, ransom notice. It was just shakedown letters is what it felt like. And the way that they would negotiate was so unfair. They didn't seem to care what the law or the facts were. They would say the law, but they didn't seem to care what the facts really were. just knew you'll go bankrupt. Your company will go bankrupt if you tried to fight all of these. And so we're going to...

just throw anything at the wall that sticks and see what sticks. And it was so dishonorable. I was, anyway, so all of that just dawned on me one day. All just came to a head and I was just like, I can't believe it. My head, my head was just exploding. And Dina, who I was reporting to at the time, walked in and I just started venting to her. Like, they don't even care.

Katalina (27:30.263)

Yeah.

Katie Zugsay (27:44.591)

The plaintiff's attorneys don't even care what the facts are. They just want money. All they want to do is just horse trade and just negotiate about the dollars and they don't even care what the law and the facts are. And she's like, welcome to the fight. glad you could make it. Yeah. She was like, I thought it would actually take longer because you have just kind of a gentle personality and everything. But yeah, you've got that fight. You've got the fire inside of you. You're going to do great here, kid.

Katalina (28:00.653)

Wow.

Katalina (28:12.748)

It's what you were meant to be, I guess. That's so cool. Wow.

Katie Zugsay (28:16.595)

Yeah, and so, yeah, that was working in-house. then fast forward, I ended up moving to San Diego. I was working remotely and I was recruited to Marsha MacLennan, which is an insurance agency and one of the largest ones. they needed a lawyer to talk to the lawyers at their clients' offices. so that was fascinating. I really didn't think...

at the time that insurance would be very interesting or could possibly be interesting to anyone. But it was fascinating. I just took to it right away. thought it was very interesting. I loved, just like, it felt like a cause when I was working at the SWC group, because I knew I was the line of defense for the good guys.

that we were just being invaded by these false claims and frivolous, greedy attempts to steal money from an honest company is what the plaintiff's litigation felt like. So it felt very cause driven. then learning insurance was quite a shift from that, but it was relational. saw what a value

you could bring to a business just by understanding their risk management. so.

Katalina (29:48.738)

So is that how you got into starting your own company?

Katie Zugsay (29:54.284)

me that again. Sorry, just needed to catch my breath. Okay.

Katalina (29:55.736)

No, you're good. So is that how you started to create your own company?

Katie Zugsay (30:04.397)

Yeah, so I ended up, so my position was eliminated at Marshall McLennan. I was laid off because they needed more of an administrative role at the time. And so I ended up taking the California bar and I passed, thank goodness, the first time and did some traveling and then was called back to SWC group in a former role. so,

Katie Zugsay (30:34.455)

It was good to be back. It was good to be back in the fight and it was very familiar. was drawing on all my old skills and everything, but I never forgot the insurance piece. I never forgot the value. I was inspired to become the broker that I didn't have when I was in house because I didn't know, if I had known Ben Johnson, a Ben of Cornerstone, that I probably wouldn't have been as inspired to start my own business.

perfectly honest, because he really was the broker that I really needed. aside from that, it's like just a total detour. wow, I was like, I would have loved to have had the level of service that the folks in my office at Marsh-McClennan were giving. Granted, it was to other industries. That office did not understand collections, but they did understand other industries.

the way that they would partner with those companies so closely on almost a daily basis, just helping that company be successful. Like very large publicly traded companies were relying very much on their insurance brokers on a very regular basis. They were just hand in hand working with their operations, their litigation teams, et cetera. And I thought, wow, that would have just been incredible. What an asset and a valuable

partner that is to have. But collections is so specific and also insurance is very specific. It's just in a foreign language. so I was, right? Even for lawyers. mean, it looks like it's legalese, but it's not legally. It has no basis in the English language almost. It's just, right?

Katalina (32:13.154)

Yes.

Katalina (32:25.738)

Yeah, no truly!

Katie Zugsay (32:27.629)

Yeah, and so you have to have a broker who can decipher it for you in your language, which is in our case, know, collections, like to understand the risks, to understand what they need, what they don't need. It is, it's such a cool, I realized like I have such a unique skill set. I would love to translate between insurance and collections to be able to get.

Katie Zugsay (32:53.795)

things that fit and be able to offer the service in a way that's relevant and not cookie cutter or one-size-fits-all because none of the companies are cookie cutter or one-size-fits-all. Very unique. they, so anyway, I was getting just really inspired by that idea and thinking, you know, I'm just going to do it. I'm going to do it. And this was like early February, 2020. And I'm like, this is my year. It's like so many people.

Katalina (33:03.381)

Yeah.

Katalina (33:14.548)

pave your own way.

Katie Zugsay (33:23.545)

That's everything that's gonna be so great.

Katalina (33:27.992)

Yeah, little did you know! my gosh, what timing there! wow!

Katie Zugsay (33:34.979)

Well, so I didn't launch. think, I mean, I, you know, in February, I was just like, you know, really inspired. And then in March, I was just like, no, I'm good. I'm going to stay and I have a job and I'm really grateful for a job. but that was at a time, goodness, when, you know, ACA was doing those wonderful huddles every day. And we were in the trenches together, trying to just keep up with the changing regulations.

Katalina (33:56.962)

No.

Katie Zugsay (34:02.839)

every single day. And I remember thinking, there's no way I can leave my company right now. It would be a very disgraceful disservice to any company to just leave them in the lurch now of all times. Like this does not seem like the time. And it doesn't really seem like a good time to take a risk of any kind during a global crisis. But the months went by and then I got approached by Lorraine Lyons.

Katie Zugsay (34:32.857)

who is such a legend in the industry. And she was just letting me know that she's she had taken a break from the industry, which I had known, but she's coming back. And, you know, could she help with anything and be of service to me and my general counsel role? And I was like, Do you want my job? I mean, because I've got this idea, I'm going to start a company. Would you like my no really, like, would you like my job? Because I would feel great about

leaving the company in your hands, it would be frankly such an upgrade because I just I respected her. I still do respect her so much. She has so much wisdom and just she's a fantastic lawyer. And and so and it worked out. I was like, this is it. This is the timing. The timing is perfect now because we can we can transition her in. We've got

Katalina (35:04.447)

Yeah

Katie Zugsay (35:28.281)

you know, there's no deadlines. can, we've got a long runway. I can set up my business and transition Lorraine into this role. And it was, it was just one of, and she, you she ended up joining what was then Malone Frost-Martin, but still just, you she took over the role and it was such a relief for me. And I was able for the first time to spread my own wings as an entrepreneur and kind of bet on myself in this industry with.

Katalina (35:57.591)

how awesome!

Katie Zugsay (35:59.878)

Yeah, and see, you know, is this gonna work? I think it's a good idea, but is it gonna work? I don't know. And so, yeah, it was very scary. were, it was certainly the biggest risk I had taken, but I'm so glad I did because the relationships that I've built, I thought I had great relationships. I thought I knew a lot of people in the industry before, but it has exponentially expanded since

Katalina (36:10.304)

shit.

Katie Zugsay (36:27.523)

I started my company and I'm so grateful for that because it's allowed me to meet so many, so many more people who are just quality, like great people you just want to do life with, people you want to talk to, you can't wait to catch up with. And those are my clients now.

Katalina (36:38.102)

Yeah!

Katie Zugsay (36:47.929)

Like you I can't believe I'm working sometimes because I'm like I just enjoy this so much I enjoy Connecting and helping and knowing that what I'm doing is making a difference for this this business as a business owner I really really appreciate being the broker that I wish I had in the past

Katalina (36:54.232)

you

Katalina (37:06.624)

and you're truly thriving on that unexpected path that you embody this entire topic. So to recap, when life surprises you, I mean, you started with, had this goal and you found out you might not be suited for it. And then you found out, my gosh, maybe I'm good in corporate and my gosh, maybe I'm more prepared for things and more ready than I thought I was. And then finding yourself.

as a law student and you never ever thought you would be there. And then from there being in collections law where you never thought you would be and then finding out that, hey, maybe it isn't the industry that I thought it was or that social media and such says it is. then just all of these moments where you were surprised, surprised, surprised. And then you get to this final point where you thought one thing about the industry

and starting your own business and everything. And it's even better than you originally thought. It's so cool. That is such an amazing path and an arc that I don't know if everybody can share one that's that unique, but my God, everybody's is unique. Everybody's is unique, but my goodness, I think you have a very, very special one here. And what I think is something that should be highlighted about your story in particular.

is the core message of who you were didn't change. It seems like you surprised yourself over and over again and you managed to thrive in this unexpected path, but you thrived because who you are, which is somebody who has always wanted to be with people and help people, you found that in an area where you just didn't expect it, because that's what you're doing every day.

You're still helping people, you're being with people, you're forming those relationships just in an unexpected different career path, which is super cool.

Katie Zugsay (39:07.237)

Yeah, I never would have ever predicted that I would end up owning an insurance agency and no never I never in a million years if I had a guess if I had 500 guesses I would not have have hit on that.

Katalina (39:24.192)

Not even on your bingo card, not even there. But Katie, this is so incredible. Unfortunately, we're out of time. I wanna thank you so much for sharing all about your experience and your career path. This was a fantastic discussion. Thank you.

Katie Zugsay (39:25.828)

No.

Katie Zugsay (39:38.745)

Thank you for having me. My palms are so sweaty right now because I'm so uncomfortable with this is way out of my comfort zone to share such a personal journey. it's just a very, very personal story. And I'm such a private person. But when Catalina Dawson asks you to be on our channel, it's such an honor. And I was so thrilled to be able to have the chance to process

some of my life story. It's not often that you can kind of look back and take inventory of your journey. Of course, it's all still being written, but thank you so much for having me. I'm just like, breathless.

Katalina (40:21.654)

my pleasure. No, truly. And knowing that it's something that is difficult for you to do and you've stepped out of your comfort zone to come on here with me and share it. my gosh, seriously, that is so incredible. You are such a brave person and you're continuing to surprise yourself. So it's incredible. Thank you, Katie. I hope maybe we can get on another time and talk about something else or get you on a different podcast, but.

To all of our listeners, if you have any questions or comments, please leave them below. We will try to get to all of them. For anybody who wants to connect with Katie, she is truly a fantastic person. You can find her on LinkedIn. And otherwise, we will see you all in the next episode.