Katalina Dawson (00:11)

Hello and welcome back to another episode of Career Path. I'm your host Katalina. Today I have the fantastic Jennifer Turnage joining me. She is the CEO of Primeritus Financial Services and the co-founder of xElle Ventures. Well, Jennifer, thank you so much for joining me today.

Jennifer Turnage (00:26)

Thank you, Katalina. I am excited to be here today.

Katalina Dawson (00:30)

Today, Jennifer and I are going to be talking about Creating Your Personal Brand But before we jump into that, you know how this particular podcast goes. I would love to hear a little bit about you and how you got to where you are today about your career path.

Jennifer Turnage (00:46)

Happy to share that. I think it's been an amazing journey that I really could have never planned or even imagined for myself. So over the past 35 years, I have held about a dozen C-suite positions. Many of those were as a first time CFO. And so in those roles, it was very unique in that my goal was to put myself out of the job, which would make a lot of people uncomfortable.

Katalina Dawson (01:14)

Yeah!

Jennifer Turnage (01:14)

But

I loved it, I loved it, I embraced it. what's been really fascinating about this career is that I would say over the last say 33 years of that, and despite as many positions as I've held, I've never actually applied for a job. Everything has come to me through recommendations and referrals. And I believe a lot of that comes from

a desire to always add value. And I think I learned early in my career that if you can help someone else make money, you will be in demand. And that can come, you know, it can come in many ways. It could be helping optimize the profits in the business. It could be selling, referring, raising money, selling companies, whatever it is. If you can help someone else be successful, then that will enable you to be successful as well.

Katalina Dawson (01:47)

Yes!

Yeah.

Jennifer Turnage (02:06)

On

the personal side of things, I am a wife, a mother, a daughter. I have a wonderful golden retriever. Love living at the coast and boating and beach time. I enjoy Pilates and reading.

Katalina Dawson (02:20)

Love that! Not everybody gives like a little personal snippet there. I think you might actually be the first one. Now I'm going to have to, I'm going to have to implement that. That's so fun to get to know you more personally.

Jennifer Turnage (02:21)

Thank

you

I think it's important because as women, as people, our careers are just one part of our lives. And all of those parts come together in who we are. And I've been very fortunate in that the role that I have today as CEO of Primeritus actually came through those referrals. So I think it's been about 15 years ago, I was introduced to Steve Norwood who had raised some angel funding for his company.

Katalina Dawson (02:37)

No.

Jennifer Turnage (02:57)

He needed his first CFO. I came and joined him. It started out one day a week. Then gradually over a couple of years, I became full-time. And then when we sold the company, then I left to go on and do other things. That's kind of what I tended to do at the time. But we stayed in touch. And the company ended up being acquired again. I came back in a couple of interim and consulting roles. And then back in 2022, I came back

came back in again full time as the CFO of the company that had acquired Steve's company, which is Primeritus, and then moved into the president role the following year, and then the CEO role at the beginning of 2024. So very interesting journey. But again, I could never have planned this or set it out as a goal, but I've loved every bit of it along the way.

Katalina Dawson (03:34)

Okay.

Very cool. Yeah.

God, I love that. That kind of embodies the idea of the journey is the reward and that's super fun. I love that. Well, let's get into our topic. But actually before we get into the topic, I want to give a tiny disclaimer about what's happening here in my office - home. My neighbors are having a deck put on their roof, but I live in a townhome. So their roof is also my roof. And it's, you know, I know they're putting in a deck. It sounds kind of like they're dropping boulders up there.

Jennifer Turnage (03:56)

Yes.

Katalina Dawson (04:18)

Um, so hopefully in post, can edit most of this out, but if you suddenly hear random booms, that's what's going on. They also have one of those, um, boom lifts and the person who's going up and down right outside my window, the window that's like close enough that I can touch it. So it's very noisy. If anybody hears anything, I apologize. I had no idea they were doing construction today. little noisy. 100%. You just got to roll with the punches. Try to figure things out.

Jennifer Turnage (04:39)

That is life, right?

That's right.

Katalina Dawson (04:46)

I did a test with the mic earlier and I was like, darn it, you can hear it, but maybe in post I can edit it. So little disclaimer for everybody, but now let's dive into that Creating Your Personal Brand topic. And Let's start with defining what is a personal brand.

Jennifer Turnage (05:02)

I think that is a great question and I've best heard it described as your personal brand is what people will say about you when you're not in the room.

Katalina Dawson (05:12)

I love that. That's a fantastic definition, yes.

Jennifer Turnage (05:16)

I like that one because sometimes we get caught up in, okay, like what are our brand colors and our font? What's our tagline? You know, we get caught up into that. And really in the end it's what do people think about you? Whether it's you're an individual, whether it's a corporate brand, know, what do you think of the logos, things like that. It's really what do people say about you and how do they feel about you?

Katalina Dawson (05:38)

Yeah, how they feel about you. That, kind of makes me think, cause of course, when we think of brands, we think of companies that makes me think of a discussion I was having today actually with a client about trust in brands and like, say you find something online, you go, this is very cool. And you go to their website and you're like, I am interested in purchasing this item, but then you're on the website and it doesn't look very safe. And you're not really sure what this is. What's most people's next step? Well,

you probably go look and see if you can find it on Amazon, because Amazon the feeling of the brand is it's safe. You know, if something doesn't work, I can return it. There is a safe shopping brand to the company. So, that's just what you made me think of. when

Amazon is not in the room. It's always that next thought of, well, you know, maybe I could just find it on Amazon. It's a safe place to shop. You can always just go back to it. So interesting.

Jennifer Turnage (06:32)

Yeah.

And I think the other thing about Amazon that's interesting too is that I look at the reviews. I want to see what are other people saying? What are actual consumers and actual buyers saying? Not just what is the company saying or what is this person putting out to the world? What are other people saying?

Katalina Dawson (06:38)

Yes!

And that's another way to find out like, you know, when the person selling it's not in the room, what are people actually saying about you? Again, that's that brand. Wow. So how do you start to form that like personal brand? Are you treating yourself like a company or?

Jennifer Turnage (06:56)

Yes, yes.

Yes, So I think that when you think about a career, I think about it as it's really the business of yourself. And how do you want to manage that? And how do you take control of that? Because if you don't take control of it, no one will. You are the person who has the most vested interest really in your career. So, when you think about it, it's like, what are those things that you do exceptionally well?

Katalina Dawson (07:23)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Jennifer Turnage (07:31)

that you

do better than anyone else? And How can you do more of those things and become known for those things? At the beginning of your career, you're still figuring out what those things are. You kind of, I think, stumble upon them in many ways. It's not like you set out to go and do a certain thing necessarily. It's that you're given an opportunity, you embrace it, you try it, and you discover you have a unique talent. And the more you can hone in on what's your unique talent, that's what will help you stand out.

Katalina Dawson (07:59)

I love that. Or you can possibly find that a talent that you had that was unrelated, whether it was a hobby or something else you did or something you grabbed from a previous era in your career path could be applied to today. What made me think of that is, I have a background in acting performance based things. And I always thought I would one day be an actor in movies and on stage But today,

I am presenting at conferences. I have a podcast. Like there's different ways that I incorporate these little pieces of me that I think are my strengths that I can really apply within a very solid career.

Jennifer Turnage (08:41)

It's very true. the beginning of my career was as a CPA. I was an auditor with PricewaterhouseCoopers. I had a degree in accounting and finance. And throughout that, you become very focused on accuracy, process, things like that. So I had a certain focus. But what that translated into

as I moved into other roles outside of that field was just the ability to get things done. And that's what I became known for. And that's a skill that could apply across multiple disciplines. It didn't have to just apply to say the accounting and finance.

Katalina Dawson (09:18)

So aside from having the skills and honing them, is there a way you need to market yourself so that you get to be known for those skills?

Jennifer Turnage (09:27)

Yes, and that's exactly the term I would use. I would use marketing and PR. And when I think about the things I've learned the most about and I've really embraced learning about since I left school many years ago, if we won't say how many years, but many years ago I've been working for a while, is the areas that I've learned the most is when I focused on communication, marketing, and sales skills. And whether you're applying that to a business or applying it to yourself,

people are gonna hear about what you've done primarily from you. And I think often as women, we tend to not wanna promote ourselves. We don't wanna be seen as all that person who's always bragging about themselves. I think it's in our nature to recognize other people. And there's a balance to that. I think it's important to recognize other people. It's important to share, share the wins.

Jennifer Turnage (10:23)

share that you didn't do everything on your own, but you have to do your own PR. And it's very uncomfortable.

Katalina Dawson (10:28)

love quotes and you're making me think of that quote that says, no matter what industry you're in, you're always in sales because you're always selling yourself. And I don't know who said the quote, but it's very famous.

Jennifer Turnage (10:40)

Absolutely.

It's so true. It's so true. When people are going to repeat things about you, you want them to repeat things they heard ideally from you or personal experience because you can control that narrative. If they don't know anything about you, they may say nothing at all or worse, they might make things up pretending that they know something.

Jennifer Turnage (11:06)

So it's really important to kind of frame that and use certain words, use certain phrases to really convey what you want to be known for and put the word out there and say it repeatedly. And we have so many ways that we can do that now, but it's really figuring that out. What do I want to be known for? And that's what you put out in the world every chance you get.

Katalina Dawson (11:29)

And then just practicing what you preach, making sure that you deliver on those promises and you embody what you want to embody, what you set out to embody and what you're telling people you're going to embody, making sure you absolutely deliver. And now an interesting part of it that you were talking about again is the aspect of other people and other people promoting you. So let's talk a little bit about...

Jennifer Turnage (11:50)

this.

Katalina Dawson (11:52)

building that network, because I also think it really relates to what you said earlier, that you haven't been applying for jobs. The opportunities, those doors open because then the network that you built and the word of mouth and it's who you know, not necessarily what you know after a certain point. It's not just reading off degrees on a resume. It's getting that next door open through a network. So I'd love to talk about the role of a network within a personal brand.

Jennifer Turnage (12:13)

Yes.

Yes.

I think it's important to step outside of your everyday. So when you're given an opportunity to do something outside your comfort zone, take it. A good example in my past was when I was with PricewaterhouseCoopers on the audit side. think, okay, CPA, finance, accounting, know, very kind of behind the scenes type of role...

but I was able to step into a role of helping with the marketing for our technology team, helping with sales for that, helping with events. And that gave me visibility to people outside my local office, outside my client base, into the community.

Katalina Dawson (13:00)

And had you ever done anything like that before with the marketing and events? So brand new territory.

Jennifer Turnage (13:04)

Never, never.

Brand new territory, but I know I made a lot of mistakes. I wasn't the greatest person at it, but I put myself out there and I learned and I embraced the visibility that came with that and building the network that came with that and knowing that that was how I could create not only opportunities for my team and our firm, but for myself. And so my first role outside of that,

was transferring into the consulting group in the firm. And it was because people had seen my work on a project and said, hey, she's got some really unique skills that could benefit us on the consulting side. I said, why not? So I did it. And then a few years later, I had the opportunity to go to work for one of my clients as a CFO of their startup. And I said, why not? Why not? Let's go and do it and try it. And that took a whole path.

When opportunities come your way to expand your network, you take them. Take them. The other thing is being deliberate. When you find someone who is going to be an ally to you or a supporter to you, who you believe can say your name in that room full of opportunities, you really, really deepen your relationship with those people. You're going to come across people who you believe can help you. And they probably could help you.

Jennifer Turnage (14:26)

But they're not gonna help you for whatever reason. They don't connect with you. Maybe they're not someone who tends to help people at all. There's different types of people in the world. So when you find those people who really get you, build those relationships, build them deeply. And I think the other point about networking is it's definitely quality over quantity.

Katalina Dawson (14:36)

Yeah.

Jennifer Turnage (14:51)

When I go to an event, for example, I would rather make one deep new connection than meet 20 random people that I don't follow up with. on that. Really look for those people. And as you're networking and just as you're thinking about life in general, I think it's really important to give before you ask. It's kind of the karma and your bank out there, so to speak.

Katalina Dawson (14:59)

that makes sense. Absolutely, that makes sense.

Jennifer Turnage (15:16)

Don't always be the one asking. If you can give, give, give, things will come back to you without you even having to ask.

Katalina Dawson (15:24)

Absolutely,

you're building this network and you're looking for these sponsors and allies, but you also need to be a sponsor and an ally. Be that for somebody else and you can learn so much through helping others and bringing them up.

Jennifer Turnage (15:33)

lately.

Yes, yes. I think even when you're particularly mentoring, I love mentoring, and I think in a good mentoring relationship, as a mentor, when you learn just as much from the mentee as they learn from you, that's where you have that synergy and the power, and that gives you energy and excitement to keep doing it over and over again.

Katalina Dawson (15:56)

That's beautiful. I had a great conversation on this podcast with Marian about the exact same thing. Marian Sangalang for anybody who doesn't know her. She's incredible. And she is super passionate about that idea of mentorship and getting something out of it as a mentor. Her word for it was you get revived. And I loved that. Revived. Right? So another thing...

Jennifer Turnage (16:15)

That's a beautiful word for that. Yes. Yes.

Katalina Dawson (16:22)

Anybody who watches this podcast knows I love quotes and I've been already spouting them off, but I'm gonna go with another one. And again, I rarely know who to attribute these to. I am so sorry, but there's a saying about who you spend your time with is who you are. And there's even studies that like the five core people that you really spend time with is going to determine who you're gonna be within like the next five years. And that comes down to tons of different aspects of your life, but you can...

Jennifer Turnage (16:26)

you

Katalina Dawson (16:51)

definitely apply that to your career if you're around a bunch of people who are motivated, if you're around a bunch of people who just wanna do the bare minimum and clock out and go home. It's really going to shape you. Your environment, shapes who you are, but also the people around you shape who you are. So building that, like you were saying, a powerful network with that value over quantity, for sure. Yeah. So.

Jennifer Turnage (17:13)

Yes. Yes.

Katalina Dawson (17:17)

Within this, you've mentioned taking risks a couple of times. Can you talk a little bit more about that?

Jennifer Turnage (17:23)

Yes, yes. I think that when I think about one of the earlier risks that I took was choosing to leave PwC Consulting after nearly 10 years with the firm to go be a CFO of a startup.

Katalina Dawson (17:37)

That's scary. Sounds very intimidating.

Jennifer Turnage (17:38)

That's scary because I thought I

was on one path and this was going to take me on a different path. I'm sure there was a pay cut involved. There was just a lot of a lot of unknown with that. And I remember having a little conversation with myself where I said said to myself, you need to go and do this startup thing because this opportunity may never come around again. Meanwhile, PwC Consulting

Katalina Dawson (17:49)

Yeah!

Jennifer Turnage (18:07)

is not going anywhere. And kind of in the back of my mind, said, you can always come back if it doesn't work out. So I took the leap. Well, what was strange is a year later that... that little start up had been acquired. I will say that it's still in existence today. But PwC consulting was acquired. So you thought, OK, the big corporate job that you think is safe

Katalina Dawson (18:29)

Yeah.

Jennifer Turnage (18:36)

wasn't the safe job. This startup actually had more longevity at that time and it then put me in a position to go and do that over and over and over again. The second big risk that I took was after one of those roles I'd been a full-time employee. I had an opportunity to be an intrapreneur and to basically start up operations overseas.

Katalina Dawson (18:36)

Wasn't. Yeah.

Jennifer Turnage (19:03)

for the company I was with. So I went from being the CFO to the general manager, managing director of international operations, where I was then responsible for revenue, hiring, basically all the functions of these divisions. And it's one of those things you're like, okay, I'm going from something that I know I do really, really well to an area where I could fail. And it's something that was like, I have to go and do this. I felt so passionate about it that

Katalina Dawson (19:25)

Okay.

Jennifer Turnage (19:32)

I went and did it. And that's where I learned so many things that really then allowed me to become an entrepreneur. So when that role came to an end, instead of taking another full-time job, I chose to start my own fractional CFO firm. So this was before it was kind of commonplace to be a fractional executive. I decided that I would rather put my faith in myself as an entrepreneur.

Katalina Dawson (19:38)

Yeah.

Jennifer Turnage (19:59)

than take another full-time position and did that for many years. And that was a leap of faith because at that point, let's see, I think I was recently divorced. had two children in private school. I had a mortgage and that's when I chose to start my first business.

Katalina Dawson (20:15)

my gosh, that's a lot of pressure.

Jennifer Turnage (20:16)

It was pressure and so I had to be successful and I did. I did. And then that firm ended up growing, employing other women. And it was a wonderful experience for me until I was lured into my next full-time role, which led to the position I'm in today. So sometimes what you think is the safe route isn't the safe route anyway. So if the only reason you're not making a change is because you feel like what you have is safe.

Jennifer Turnage (20:44)

really think about is it really safe? It may be a false perception.

Katalina Dawson (20:46)

That's great.

Yeah, that's a really interesting thing to think about. So let's get into this a little bit more about this mindset. earlier you talked about being open to opportunity as a part of the mindset.

Let's talk a little bit about other mindsets while building your personal brand. What are some other mindsets that you would say are important?

Jennifer Turnage (21:07)

I

think there's definitely, you have to have a level of self-confidence. And I think it's understanding what are your unique gifts and finding every opportunity to demonstrate, to hone, and to build on those gifts. At some point, you have to let go of what are not your gifts and focus on what are my gifts and how can I master those things.

Jennifer Turnage (21:35)

So I think often we think about, I need to go get this skill. I need to go to this class or get this degree to be better.

Pause. That may be true depending on where you want to go, but sometimes it's deepened into what you already are good at and leverage what you're good at rather than chasing trying to fix a gap that you think you should fill.

Katalina Dawson (21:57)

I like that, yeah. Honing your skills, having that confidence, and by honing your skills, increasing your confidence, most likely. Something else I think of when I think about this is partially because I just did the episode with Sarah recently, Sarah Woggerman, we talked about overcoming imposter syndrome. So I feel like with your own personal brand, as you're building that, having that imposter syndrome come up could be something that you have to work on to combat.

Jennifer Turnage (22:05)

Yes.

Yes, yes, I think absolutely. And it came up a lot for me and many times in my career, I was the only woman in the room. Whether it was because it was the technology industry or because it was in a finance role, it was, I'm sad to say that it was normal to, it felt normal to be the only woman in the room. And that's not good. And at this point, when I'm the only woman in the room, I'm like, something's wrong.

Katalina Dawson (22:33)

wow.

No.

Jennifer Turnage (22:51)

Like it stands out to me now, but there was a time where that was just my life. And you wonder, should I be here? And you feel like people are looking at you and judging you, like, why is she here? Unfortunately, it's true. are like, is that someone's assistant? Or whatever it might be. It's like, no.

Katalina Dawson (23:05)

Oh my gosh, I had a similar

thing happen when I started in this industry. I was manning our booth at RMAI and somebody came up to me and was like, so your dad owns the company, right? I was like, ooh... uh, no. It can be difficult.

Jennifer Turnage (23:23)

Yes,

it happens. There's those preconceived notions, and over time they can erode your confidence, absolutely erode your confidence.

Katalina Dawson (23:31)

Yeah, in that

moment I felt like they looked at me and they were like, incompetent little girl child. Like I'm like, I know I'm young in the industry, but wow, it felt very demeaning for somebody to just look at me and go, you must be like the daughter of the owner. That's the only reason you could possibly be here. So I was like, no, you want to hear about all of our services? Like, wow, okay.

Jennifer Turnage (23:40)

Yes.

Right, right. And those kind of moments really, really hurt you, I think. And then also, I think it's, think, I don't know the studies or anything like that, but where it's been said that women will only apply for a job if they meet 100 % of the requirements, know, men have a much lower, yes. And so, you you think about when you get a job, you're like, my gosh, you know, I,

Katalina Dawson (24:11)

Yes, heard this statistic.

Jennifer Turnage (24:19)

I only met 90 % of the requirements on the job description and you feel like you're lacking something. And we have to just flip that around and say, no, I was the person that was selected for a reason. And I am prepared for this role. I have the support that I need for this role and I will be successful in that role. So I know there's, people have a love hate relationship with the 'fake it till you make it' saying.

Katalina Dawson (24:25)

100%.

Jennifer Turnage (24:46)

And I think that really what it's come down to me and what's been a successful for me is visualizing your success. And thinking, okay, where do I want to go in this role and what does that look like and start acting like you're already there. It's not about pretending to have knowledge that you don't have or experience you don't have. It's knowing where you want to go, visualizing yourself there.

Jennifer Turnage (25:12)

and acting like you're already there and doing the work to get there.

Katalina Dawson (25:16)

Yes, and I love that portion of it. It's not just the acting, it's the doing the work to get there. And this is something that you and I talked about when we first connected and I loved that idea of the intentional changing of yourself to be who you wanna be and be what you wanna be for your personal brand. Not to say that you have to change everything about yourself or like anything like that, don't go off the deep end with this. There can be...

Jennifer Turnage (25:35)

Yes.

Katalina Dawson (25:44)

small things we change. And when we had this discussion, I brought up something that I did when I was younger. I think I was in, it was between eighth grade through high school where I was looking at my handwriting and I went, you know what I really want as a feature of me? And this was so random. I wanted to have very stylized handwriting. I wanted it to look very cool when you looked at a note that I wrote. And so I started practicing, cause I'm in school taking notes like,

crazy every day, every class, pages of notes. I was like, all right, I'm going to start intentionally practicing writing my G's differently with a little swoop or my little S with a little tail or a swoop or whatever it was on the letters. And I practiced it so much that it has literally become, I write a very unique way now, but I don't even think about it. It's just my handwriting. It has literally become a part of who I am. And it was because I made those intentional

little changes and I practiced it and I implemented it and it became a part of me. So that's a weird example,  very niche, but it's something that you can do. And Jennifer, I know you have a great one too that you brought up.

Jennifer Turnage (26:54)

Yes, yes, was was fun having that conversation and one of the things that I did early in my career was training on public speaking. It was a big fear of mine. I was terrified of it in college and it becomes necessary and how to have confidence in public speaking and the painful process of watching videos of yourself and things like that. But one of the things that came out of that was

that I spoke with a southern accent. Some people may hear it now, other people may not, but...

Katalina Dawson (27:25)

think I can only pick up on it since you mentioned it. I'm like, oh, yeah, here and there, I can kind of hear it. But when you first told me and we had first met, I was like, oh, wow, really? I had no idea.

Jennifer Turnage (27:28)

Thanks

And

what I was told, and this is where honest feedback is so important to people. I think often we hold back on feedback because we don't want to hurt someone's feelings. I needed to hear these words. Someone told me, they said, you look younger than you are, you're petite, you're blonde, and when you speak with a Southern accent, people think you're stupid.

Jennifer Turnage (27:58)

I was like, wow. But then I realized that like.

Katalina Dawson (27:59)

And that mustn't hurt your confidence

in the moment. But it is feedback that you're like, okay.

Jennifer Turnage (28:04)

They're like, if you want to really succeed in business outside of your hometown, tone down the accent.

I'd never thought about it before. I didn't even realize I had an accent. And so I did pay more attention to that in how I speak. And I think that did help me particularly, you know, as I started to travel more and my role started to expand, I needed to speak in a way that was more professional than my natural voice was at that time. I didn't change who I was in any way.

Jennifer Turnage (28:38)

If I go back to my hometown and I'm hanging out with my friends from high school, I'm probably not speaking the same way I would if I were on stage at an event. But that's because there's a business need there. So that was one thing that came out of really saying, okay, what is a skill I need to learn?

and then getting some feedback that, again, at the time it was hard to hear, but it was incredibly valuable.

Katalina Dawson (29:04)

Yes, absolutely. And gosh, it probably was really soul crushing to hear it in the moment, but I'm so glad that you were able to like come out on the other end honing a skill that made you stronger and made you really be able to build that personal brand that you wanted to build.

Jennifer Turnage (29:21)

Yes, yes, it was incredibly valuable to hear it. gave me something to work on. It's something I still think about at times, but it was something necessary for moving forward in that aspect of my career.

Katalina Dawson (29:33)

Absolutely. And to wrap up our discussion on this building of your personal brand, I want to bring up when we talked about 'you' when you weren't in the room. So since that is what your personal brand ends up being... well, for anybody who doesn't know Jennifer, first of all, you should connect with her. She's fantastic. And she has an amazing LinkedIn page where she just is like an inspirational quote junkie like me.

Jennifer Turnage (29:45)

you

Katalina Dawson (29:58)

She's putting out these amazing posts, sharing personal stories. It's a ton of great stuff. And when I had a discussion about you, when you weren't in the room, that's what we talked about. The fact that you were an incredibly inspiring person, that you seemed to have this goal of uplifting others and empowering others. so that's the personal brand that I feel from you, Jennifer. And I think that's an incredible personal brand to have.

Jennifer Turnage (29:58)

Thank

Well, thank you very much. And I think that's very, it's very authentic because I think what we put out in the world is what we get back from the world. And I always want to be very positive, even in challenging situations. Let's look at the positive and look towards the future and what we can do to improve the situation.

Katalina Dawson (30:33)

I love it. Yes, it goes back to your always look for the opportunity that you started with. Well, Jennifer, thank you so much for joining me today and sharing your experience, your insights, your personal stories. This was incredible to have you.

Jennifer Turnage (30:47)

There he is.

Well, thank you so much. been a delightful conversation.

Katalina Dawson (31:00)

I'm so glad! to any of

our listeners. If you have any questions, comments or topics that you would like to see us cover on this podcast, please leave them below. We will do our best to get to all of them. Otherwise, we will see you in our next episode. Thanks.